Darren Grey and Mark Johnson discuss design of innovative mechanics in roguelikes.
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Synopsis & Useful Links
- Innovation in Seven Day Roguelikes
- Single feature focus
- Needing to know the landscape
- Genre/settings mashup and comboing elements from other genres
- Innovating around restrictions
- Mark's attempts at innovation in Ultima Ratio Regum and how some innovations can only take place in big games
- How to innovate in larger roguelikes
- Player-inspired innovation
- When players don't like innovation, and how to change things whilst bringing them along
- Innovating with geometry and flexing away from traditional grid-based mechanics
- Alternative death / health mechanics
- Challenges in introducing innovation - teaching new mechanics, new UI, too much change at once, communicating innovation with context and theme,
- When you innovate so much it stops being a roguelike
- Areas we think are particularly ripe for innovation in roguelikes
- 7DRLs mentioned: Toby the Trapper, Nightfall, ZeldaRL, Gruesome, Broken Bottle
- Other games discussed: DoomRL, Brogue, Ultimate Ratio Regum, Caves of Qud, Tales of Maj'Eyal, DCSS, HyperRogue
- Non-Euclidean Spaces in Roguelikes
There is also a commercial roguelike One Way Heroics based on the idea of Nightfall (I do not know whether inspired or independent).
ReplyDeleteI know nothing about the specific DD2 issue discussed in the episode, but it seems it might be yet another case of "when players see something is good or bad, they are usually right, but if they give the reason, they are usually wrong". I.e., I would assume it means that DD2 is just not that great and people are blaming "not being like DD1" for this.
Which is also why roguelike definitions get weird, we do not really want games that are "turn-based, grid-based, and single character focused", what makes roguelikes fun is that they are like action games but you control time. Take away turn-based, you get just an action game. Take away single character focus, you get just a strategy game. Take away grid-based... well, grid-based is just the default method of "roguetime", could be fun to replace it (Rootin' Tootin' Lootin' Shootin'; also Enter the Chronosphere and WazHack which I have not tried). There are probably lots of new ways to do a non-grid-based roguelike game, or maybe roguelikes based on other non-combat action genres?
Permadeath might be also overrated compared to more meaningful elements --- I mean risk/resource management, which makes permadeath a meaningful game mechanics rather than just "get good/get lucky". How to use as few resources as possible while remaining safe? 7DRLs and other simpler roguelike designs tend to cut this element, although The Call of Judgement by redxaxder, jere and zsarver puts it in spotlight.
It is funny how Wolfenstein turned into the blueprints for the FPS genre, but the initial gameplay ideas with stealth and subterfuge were eventually picked up in the future.
ReplyDeleteI find it a disservice that Diablo didn't get a mention here. The 'innovation' in that game was quite staggering - this before mentioning the idea of multiplayer and real time gameplay.
Both Diablo and Wolfenstein too are quite important in regards to the idea of innovation, specifically in regards to 'innovating' yourself out of the game you were making. Diablo in particular innovated itself out of the genre entirely, making a new one for players to enjoy.
Speaking about innovating yourself out, even with something that Darren's 1 HP system or get surrounded and die, care should be taken to discuss at what point it turns over from a traditional roguelike into a puzzle roguelike.
The above said, developers shouldn't be afraid to consider including game mechanics that will take them out of the genre. Sometimes the next big game is one that decided to break traditions.
Likely a note could have been given to the idea of not having to make a innovative game at all. Sometimes a game that isn't necessarily doing anything really particularly new can still be good.